並前往https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/%E5%A4%A9%E4%B8%BB%E6%95%99%E6%AF%8F%E6%97%A5%E8%81%96%E8%A8%80%E7%A6%AE%E8%AE%9A%E9%A0%8C%E8%AE%80-kaoyuanpo-s5YTqDzwheW/