並前往https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep42-%E9%99%B3%E5%86%A0%E7%99%BE-%E4%B8%8D%E6%B6%88%E8%B2%BB%E7%9A%84%E7%94%9F%E6%B4%BB%E7%BE%8E%E5%AD%B8/id1565087227?i=1000549852588